Ariel Pink ‘was at Capitol to show support for Trump’ as he and John Maus criticised for attending riot

[Gibby]

i don't think of them as lofty or special. i've got a phd too and have released records that people like. there's a big a coincidence of being a tosser as there is in most walks of life. maybe even more so.

john's been good to me when i've spoken to him (i realise this is a classic defence of asshole friends!) and i think generally he's done more good with his words than bad. i don't discount serious grief fucking him up, nor do i discount him being redpilled since his divorce (hanging out with the TFW NO GF documentarian is pretty shitty).

basically my mind is open to the possibility of asshole or misunderstood, but the longer it goes on, it will tilt more to the former.

[possiblegrenade]

i don't see complicated dudes. i see 40something edgelords who're worth abandoning. If they're not quick to remedy the situation, they're likely reveling in it and are part of the problem. luckily i jumped ship a while ago. Fuck em both

i can totally buy this as a viewpoint and i daresay you aren't alone.

my position is that i am probably out for AP going forward. even if it is "lol big brain troll" stuff then i'm not into that. i won't burn your old records but i guess i won't pick up Sit n Spin and Odd Sod 2 like i planned on. you had a good run dude and hopefully you invested some of those royalties.

i've never thought of john as an edgelord at all. i still hope he can make it right, and he does seem to be aware of some of the damage being done. maybe when things die down he will give us an account that isn't a 2 minute defensive posture. why the twitter follows, why there during pandemic, etc. i'm not even looking for an apology, just an explanation.

I can't immerse myself with that nonsense any longer. still appreciate you guys and all the friends i made here

[AppTrans]

i don't see complicated dudes. i see 40something edgelords who're worth abandoning. If they're not quick to remedy the situation, they're likely reveling in it and are part of the problem. luckily i jumped ship a while ago. Fuck em both

i can totally buy this as a viewpoint and i daresay you aren't alone.

my position is that i am probably out for AP going forward. even if it is "lol big brain troll" stuff then i'm not into that. i won't burn your old records but i guess i won't pick up Sit n Spin and Odd Sod 2 like i planned on. you had a good run dude and hopefully you invested some of those royalties.

i've never thought of john as an edgelord at all. i still hope he can make it right, and he does seem to be aware of some of the damage being done. maybe when things die down he will give us an account that isn't a 2 minute defensive posture. why the twitter follows, why there during pandemic, etc. i'm not even looking for an apology, just an explanation.

I can't immerse myself with that nonsense any longer. still appreciate you guys and all the friends i made here

you're a good friend, PG :nod: i'll still be in touch on Twitter!!!

[PaulPettinger]

John has tweeted criticism about the Third Reich by a Pope, but that doesn’t cover less egregious and notorious expressions of fascism. Have also noticed that back in November John liked a tweet from Ariel spreading the conspiracy theory that the 2020 Presidential Election outcome was fraudulent: https://twitter.com/arielxpink/status/1 ... 25440?s=20.

It’s no longer possible to turn a blind eye. John may be wishing to conflate being opaque about his relationship with far-right politics, with being intellectually exclusive or edgy, but you don’t fuck around with topics like this.

John’s thesis was titled “Communication and control”, yet he's nether displaying good communication nor control of the situation. His reputation is in free fall. I fear it’s too late, but proper friends should get him to engage in some crisis comms ASAP

[Gibby]

John has tweeted criticism about the Third Reich by a Pope, but that doesn’t cover less egregious and notorious expressions of fascism. Have also noticed that back in November John liked a tweet from Ariel spreading the conspiracy theory that the 2020 Presidential Election outcome was fraudulent: https://twitter.com/arielxpink/status/1 ... 25440?s=20.

It’s no longer possible to turn a blind eye. John may be wishing to conflate being opaque about his relationship with far-right politics, with being intellectually exclusive or edgy, but you don’t fuck around with topics like this.

John’s thesis was titled “Communication and control”, yet he's nether displaying good communication nor control of the situation. His reputation is in free fall. I fear it’s too late, but proper friends should get him to engage in some crisis comms ASAP

Agree. His latter attempts to elucidate in DMs to Twitter users have actually not done that. Even regular Trumpists consider themselves not Nazis, to be against "cults of blood", etc., so I don't think there's a sufficient partition from the fuel of the Trumpist engine.

From the Sam Hyde thing we saw a person who isn't really into engaging in that kind of public grovelling. Because that was the first time and I believed in the (I feel embarrassed writing this) purity of his heart, I did believe he got involved in MDC in the spirit of love and constructive collaboration and was, in some respects, correct not to bow down to - frankly - controlling liberal wokescolds. I refuse to background check everyone I'm going to have dealings with, and I do not think viewing others with such suspicion is a net positive.

The way it feels to me is that perhaps Ariel and John are accelerationists in the Zizekian sense, where a vote for Trump is actually a continuation of the destruction of the status quo. The status quo is rotten; Biden and Harris are both complete ghouls, and Obama was a war criminal by any sense of the term. It is not good that they are in power for those things which power touches, but at least it won't ruin everyone's mental health every time they speak.

Obviously it is a crummy strategy and Trump - a billionaire born into riches - is an establishment figure of the very swamp he claims to be draining. It pains me that (if I am right) that they can't see through it. I mean - Ariel is part Mexican, why would he be for a person so virulently anti-Mexican? So much of it does not make sense, and yet does, if you consider the amount of minds Trump seems to have shattered.

TL;DR still confused, would like explanation

[possiblegrenade]

I agree with all of that, Gibby.

[Leggomyeggo]

Of course this is speculation on my part but it is difficult for me to imagine a timeline where if Sanders/Yang or anyone other than Biden had been running and were about to be inaugurated as president, that John or Ariel would have "become" Trump supporters let alone attended rallies. I Doubt their "love" for Trump is as strong as their "hatred" is of Biden. As with many people who are deemed or are now admitted, Trump supporters. Trump is a cantankerous old con-man. Biden is a deceitful career politician. Neither are good leaders but in my opinion, Biden's track record makes it seem as if he would be more likely to exacerbate the horror the U.S has wrought in the middle east; and in such a predicament i do also doubt that the media would question it or that the populous would even be allowed too. I think throwing our boys, or ANYONE off of a cliff because of a varying opinion is foolish.

[possiblegrenade]

Of course this is speculation on my part but it is difficult for me to imagine a timeline where if Sanders/Yang or anyone other than Biden had been running and were about to be inaugurated as president, that John or Ariel would have "become" Trump supporters let alone attended rallies. I Doubt their "love" for Trump is as strong as their "hatred" is of Biden. As with many people who are deemed or are now admitted, Trump supporters. Trump is a cantankerous old con-man. Biden is a deceitful career politician. Neither are good leaders but in my opinion, Biden's track record makes it seem as if he would be more likely to exacerbate the horror the U.S has wrought in the middle east; and in such a predicament i do also doubt that the media would question it or that the populous would even be allowed too. I think throwing our boys, or ANYONE off of a cliff because of a varying opinion is foolish.

Idk about John, but here's a quote from that recent Ariel interview: "I'm gay for Trump. I would let him fuck me in the butt."

I understand he's a provocateur, but seriously listen to that interview if you haven't. It's clear this isn't just a lesser evils thing as you suggest. He's taken a deep dive into conservative media and ideology. I understand the basic concept of the draw--Trump is an outsider, "drain the swamp," etc. But I don't see Trump draining the swamp (Mike Pompeo? Barr?), for example he still commits atrocities in the middle east with assassinations and sanctions.

I don't think it's foolish to ditch these guys. I'm not cutting off a limb. I'll find other great music to listen to. No shortage of it out there.

[bonsai_human]

i don't see complicated dudes. i see 40something edgelords who're worth abandoning. If they're not quick to remedy the situation, they're likely reveling in it and are part of the problem. luckily i jumped ship a while ago. Fuck em both

i can totally buy this as a viewpoint and i daresay you aren't alone.

my position is that i am probably out for AP going forward. even if it is "lol big brain troll" stuff then i'm not into that. i won't burn your old records but i guess i won't pick up Sit n Spin and Odd Sod 2 like i planned on. you had a good run dude and hopefully you invested some of those royalties.

i've never thought of john as an edgelord at all. i still hope he can make it right, and he does seem to be aware of some of the damage being done. maybe when things die down he will give us an account that isn't a 2 minute defensive posture. why the twitter follows, why there during pandemic, etc. i'm not even looking for an apology, just an explanation.

I've never like Ariel Pink. John has always seemed ego-less and in some ways an innocent - and possibly easily led. It feels like he IS pro-Trump but genuinely believes he is not racist. I'm not from the US so I daresay there are many Trump voters who would claim the same thing.

I'm disappointed, but I don't worship musicians - they are human beings - and I will always love John's music. That said, I'm putting away the t-shirt, and I can't see myself buying any of his music or merch or (if the world reopens) attending any concerts. It's been a twelve year trip but it seems like all the musicians I like are not great human beings. Adding him to the pile with Grimes and Morrissey already in it...

[bonsai_human]

From the Sam Hyde thing we saw a person who isn't really into engaging in that kind of public grovelling. Because that was the first time and I believed in the (I feel embarrassed writing this) purity of his heart, I did believe he got involved in MDC in the spirit of love and constructive collaboration and was, in some respects, correct not to bow down to - frankly - controlling liberal wokescolds.

I don't think you were wrong to see him as "pure of heart". I think he probably is, to be honest. Having seen a very close friend become an extreme conspiracy theorist I feel that it is common for this rubbish to influence those who have a certain amount of childlike naivety. Maus may have a PhD but he has never seemed to quite fit in with the rest of the adult world and has veered off the path of sanity a few times. I feel sadness but no hate for him.

[dean]

Just received a DM from John, no idea what to think anymore. I won’t repost here but others have shared their DM responses on Twitter.

[Gibby]

Just received a DM from John, no idea what to think anymore. I won’t repost here but others have shared their DM responses on Twitter.

I guess it wasn't radically different from the others we have seen?

[oldtown]

I Doubt their "love" for Trump is as strong as their "hatred" is of Biden.

This is exactly what I suspect is the case with both Ariel and Maus, except obviously with Ariel there's the obvious troll factor going on where he gets off on shocking people. Believe it or not, there are huge numbers of communists who actually favor Trump because he was the first president in over 40 years to not start or continue any wars, he deported less people than Obama, worked on building a better relationship with the DPRK, etc., along with seeing Trump as necessary for the working class to wake up to their material reality of exploitation, while Biden would simply placate them and bring about another 4 years of smiles while the same exact things were happening.

I am not trying to defend this or start any argument about whether this is "good" or not, but it is simply not comparable to the boomer Trump supporters who are often insane and sometimes downright hateful. Call me naive, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that, if Maus is indeed a supporter of Trump like Ariel has said, it is anything but the recently popularized position of finding him to be the better option, preferable to a neoliberal such as Biden, from a leftist or proletariat-centric perspective. There's also the 'accelerationist' position of wanting Trump because he 'accelerates' the downfall of capitalism/the US empire.

I don't mean to go on and on about fringe politics, really, but there's also a huge self-described "post-left" movement that's highly popular online that Alex Lee Moyer is heavily associated with, along with the likes of Aimee Terese. They all claim to be leftist but support Trump overall, it involves some mental gymnastics at times but considering how much Maus and Ariel have been hanging out with her, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had similar views at this point.

[Gibby]

A lot of what you say there oldtown is interesting and possibly true. However, the situation the other day reminded me a little of the British left arguing Brexit was going to be good because we could become free of the troika and raise working conditions and the social floor. Admirable, but clearly not what was on offer. Same with the Trump rally. It was obviously a clarion call for nutjob discord, and there are no mental gymnastics that can put thoughtful commies in that riot alongside QAnon and broken brain ex-military and rich hate LARPers.

[dean]

So, I've not actively listened to Ariel Pink since 2010, and have not played a track from him at all since 2015... so you could say that I've been 'out of the loop'. What this has done, has surfaced ugly stories that I had no idea about. He has not been on my radar, and thus I had been aware of what has been happening.

I've met him on a few occasions, and like many, my experience has been unpredictable (at best), if I were to describe him in 2010, I'd have said that I really liked his music, but he is a bit of a prick.

Some of the stuff I have since read (not relating to the politics), makes me feel sick, and I don't want to align myself in any way with this kind of behaviour.

With this in mind, I am removing the Ariel Pink forums.