Ariel Pink ‘was at Capitol to show support for Trump’ as he and John Maus criticised for attending riot

[Gibby]

the Arcadia address given is the same as the one that Demonstration Bootleg is registered at. when I finally solved that, the scales were lifted from my eyes.

[possiblegrenade]

I believe he lives there now. AP references that he is in the area during that Wrong Opinion interview from last month.

[PaulPettinger]

Sorry to have cast doubt. Truly shocking. We have been encouraged to become pitiless censors

[bonsai_human]

the Arcadia address given is the same as the one that Demonstration Bootleg is registered at. when I finally solved that, the scales were lifted from my eyes.

Oh John... I’ll always love his music but I’m not sure I can listen to it for a while. I don’t want to “cancel” him but I can’t give him any more of my money right now. I hope he can get through this weird stage.

[sophieshaw]

that twitter exchange doesn't cut it. he tagged along? just happened to be in DC did ya?

also: he's married again?

i don't think his twitter follows are a smoking gun but i did ignore several signs about morrissey until he said oh btw i am genuinely into english nationalism

Married again? To whom?

[Gibby]

Married again? To whom?

reconciled with KK

[sophieshaw]

Married again? To whom?

reconciled with KK

That’s great news

[liam]

His latter attempts to elucidate in DMs to Twitter users have actually not done that. Even regular Trumpists consider themselves not Nazis, to be against "cults of blood", etc., so I don't think there's a sufficient partition from the fuel of the Trumpist engine.

Yeah that was my suspicion, saying "fascists and racists are bad" doesn't mean much when most Trump followers obviously don't consider themselves to be supporting fascist and racist politics and were embarassed by the Capitol insurrection (even to the extent of the conspiracy nuts trying to fold that into the conspiracy and claim the rioters were all antifa actors)

[liam]

Removal of the ariel pink forum is fascist, hypocritical censorship that is leading towards the disillusionment-complex running rampant in the United States today. i am aligned hard left, and I do not condone anything anti-humanitarian by any stretch of the imagination. Bottom line-- removing every last link of content that does not align with your status quo is fucking disgusting. i'm embarrassed to have ever used this forum over the past ten years.

Solid LOL

[liam]

I'd actually forgotten about the whole Sam Hyde thing, but at the time I just wrote it off as him being naive and taking people on good faith. Same with a bunch of other musicians who appeared on the Adult Swim show. Hard not to wonder now though if that was an early red flag, or maybe his entry point to alt-right brodom (along with presumably having a steady stream of poison poured in his ear by Iago Pink).

I don't need artists to share my politics for me to enjoy their art. There's lots of music I like that was made by people who are on record for dubious beliefs or outright arseholery, even abusive behaviour. But I find it harder to square that sort of thing with someone who is currently actively involved in politics that are so clearly reactionary and tied directly to far-right groups. This isn't just a case of "oh turns out that guy voted Republican", "oh turns out she's an evangelical Christian and pro-life" etc. This is choosing to support an obvious con man at the point where he is at his most petulant, obstructionist and wilfully destructive. I find it hard to believe that anyone who isn't (a) dumb or (b) taking advantage of it for their own career, can really support Trump at this point if they're not an actual bigot on some level.

I get the thing people posted earlier about the whole anti-establishment "tear down the system" avatar of chaos kekistan bollocks, but honestly that was always a fucking stupid take and if anyone still believes Trump is any sort of threat to any real sort of establishment then god fucking help them. I really find it hard to believe that someone seemingly smart as Maus would fall for that line.

Regardless I think if you support a racist because he happens to fulfill your agenda, it doesn't matter if you don't consider yourself to have racist views. You are still a de facto racist due to facilitating it in others.

Like I said, there's art I like by bad people. I guess this just feels like a bit of a gut punch because I always considered Maus to be a good guy. Naive of me maybe, but there you go. Obviously the primary connection I have with him is his music, but I think it's simplistic to pretend that the emotional relationship (or lack of) we have with an artist doesn't affect how we appreciate the art. Especially with music. I love John Maus' music but I was also fond of the idea of John Maus as a person.

I'm pretty sure I'll still listen to his stuff in the future but I can't imagine choosing to put something on by him and not having that awareness of his choices sour things for me on some level

[Gibby]

Good posts Liam.

I am a bit more optimistic, even though like you I am really just disappointed on a personal level (dude lied to Dean! to DEAN!).

Unless more terrible actual evidence presents itself, I'm suggesting this silly turn happened at some point in the last year, well after the release of his last record. We can add up the political theories that present in his thesis and multiple interviews to get to nearly any political outcome, none of which are conclusive. Sam Hyde has totally gone off the deep end, but I watched a couple of episodes of MDE and it was just like the 2010s answer to Jam. Shame Hyde wasn't 2010s' Chris Morris.

The worst outcome is that he goes further down this route, becomes officially persona non-grata at labels and booking agencies, and has an existence that is entirely supported by new right and apathetic types. Let me look how that is going for Milo, Skullflower, and the rapper who did that 'Marilyn Manson' song. Ah, not well!

If that outcome transpires then I'll just see it as a turn: a pin to stick into his career that divides the times I can enjoy without trouble from another era altogether. I'm not discounting potentially enjoying what John does next (with Ariel I fear I am completely out now, including re-issues) but it will be with the kind of wariness Liam outlines.

Right now I don't really know what the best outcome is. He'll have lost some people here. Not loads: this is micro-news. People hepped up on righteous liberal fury are actually thin on the ground (the biggest irony here is the right mistaking liberal hostility on twitter as proportionate). There'll be a few jokes and phony denunciations for show. They always happen.

If he apologises or explains in actual language, he'll lose the right AND wake the liberals up to what he did again (people have short memories, sometimes best not to provoke them). But I think his older fans would quite like one, but from a tactical standpoint we're a nearly evaporated market. Aside from those who were waiting for payday to splash on Demo Boot merch.

I dunno. The dust is settling and both Ariel and John (and Alex Lee Moyer) have gone to ground. They're obviously a bit rattled, which shows some humanity in there. Good trolls are meant to revel in moments like this. They're acting like dick pics have got out.

[dean]

The only good thing out of this whole debacle is that Liam and Dan have appeared in a thread for the first time since 2002.

[dean]

I dunno. The dust is settling and both Ariel and John (and Alex Lee Moyer) have gone to ground. They're obviously a bit rattled, which shows some humanity in there.

When posts like this is being surfaced (https://twitter.com/GothTropNonStop/sta ... 1465380865) perhaps Ariel has many other reasons for going to ground.

*edit* they removed their post

[Gibby]

I dunno. The dust is settling and both Ariel and John (and Alex Lee Moyer) have gone to ground. They're obviously a bit rattled, which shows some humanity in there.

When posts like this is being surfaced (https://twitter.com/GothTropNonStop/sta ... 1465380865) perhaps Ariel has many other reasons for going to ground.

*edit* they removed their post

I saw it. It's all going a bit Tiger Woods' car crash for Ariel at the moment.

[liam]

perhaps Ariel has many other reasons for going to ground.

I would not be one bit surprised